Curse

LightningHell · Oct 18, 2006, 03:57 AM // 03:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byron

I don't think it's very prudent to label something harmful to the game without also evaluating its counter. I didn't have very much time to evaluate the new monk and ritualist skills, but it seems that condition removal and pressure-counters are getting a significant boost.
For example, mending touch removes two conditions from a touched ally(for example, the monk who is wielding it) at a 3/4 cast time. Deep wound, espcially one coming from range and without a KD, isn't nearly as scary with mending touch on the bar. The metagame has plenty of room to evolve IMHO, especially with the considerable boost of utility to the healing line. And, how about passive protection (bonds)?

Who cares about the Deep Wound afterwards? Deep Wound for the spike is enough.

Thom Bangalter · Oct 18, 2006, 07:26 AM // 07:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vermilion Okeanos

Mind naming your "potent andrenline cast time" buff? You provided no example.

Actually, The ones I was reference are only adrenaline, and have no cast time. However, there are indeed shouts that have cast times and also use adrenaline. Example: the soon-to-be ha staple chant of concentration. Burning refrain also has a 1 second cast time, though It's energy based. Crippling anthem is also adrenaline+cast time.

I'm pretty excited about the new paragon stuff, seems to slide nicely into any pressure type build, at the risk of being overpowering at first. I hope at the end of the season everthing isn't nerfed (like assassins...AoD was amazing) and instead people find the right counters for it.

Tainek · Oct 18, 2006, 07:29 AM // 07:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spura

GTFE triggers every 6.66 sec, supplying 4 energy as you say , Find their weakness would burn 9 energy every 5 sec.

I fail to see how gaining 4 energy every 6.66 sec and spending 9 energy every 5 sec is gaining much much more than he is spending(sic).

Like a warrior, the paragon should be using IAS to boost his adrenaline, this combined with natural regen makes it a non-issue

also , theres always the Zealos Weapon

Thom Bangalter · Oct 18, 2006, 06:46 PM // 18:46

soldier's fury is a really nice IAS too, since it has pretty much no drawback considering how paragons will be played and it's duration is 30 seconds at 12 leadership.

furthermore, and somewhat offtopic from the original post, Make Haste! is a really, really nice skill. It's similar in nature to windborne speed, with a drawback but a longer duration. I could see paragons as flag runners too based on this skill alone. Run flag, shout some crap, then run away.

Byron · Oct 19, 2006, 02:27 AM // 02:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by LightningHell

Who cares about the Deep Wound afterwards? Deep Wound for the spike is enough.

Well, certainly. But the thread is discussing pressure, and I tried to illustrate the deep wound aspect brought on by paragons has some good counters with the new monk skills.

GG. Rap Battle?

Spura · Oct 19, 2006, 11:02 AM // 11:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tainek

Like a warrior, the paragon should be using IAS to boost his adrenaline, this combined with natural regen makes it a non-issue

also , theres always the Zealos Weapon

IAS brings shout down to 5 sec. Paragon's natural regen in 5 sec is 3.3 enegry. So you are still spending 9 energy per 5 sec and gaining 8.3 energy per 5 sec.

With zeal weapon, you do gain more than spend but as you can see it could hardly be called gaining much much more energy than spending.

I'd rather just not spam the shout. That would be preferable.

Bugeater · Oct 19, 2006, 01:43 PM // 13:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom Bangalter

Make Haste! is a really, really nice skill. It's similar in nature to windborne speed, with a drawback but a longer duration. I could see paragons as flag runners too based on this skill alone. Run flag, shout some crap, then run away.

Make Haste! is target other ally, so couldn't be used on the flag runner like you're suggesting.

Thom Bangalter · Oct 19, 2006, 06:25 PM // 18:25

dammit! that skill looked so good too. Stupid "other" spells. well, regardless, I think it could still be useful in a split situation.

LightningHell · Oct 20, 2006, 02:54 AM // 02:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byron

Well, certainly. But the thread is discussing pressure, and I tried to illustrate the deep wound aspect brought on by paragons has some good counters with the new monk skills.

GG. Rap Battle?

Point taken and retracted.

And no, I can't rap. Piano trios?

Master Fuhon · Oct 20, 2006, 10:00 PM // 22:00

I'll admit I had an early bias against the class, and I thought it was just going to be one of those things that looks great on paper as a damage dealer. My concerns right now are closer to: What does the paragon do for the other guys on your team? That was the thesis I've been working with right now because I had assumed that the support aspects would end up being stronger because of the Leadership attribute. Primary attributes have been pretty class defining.

Building adrenaline from range isn't the greatest thing to work with considering you have to be stationary for an attack (and an enemy has to be moving predictably). But I've been trying to think about what kinds of tactics will be used for/against the class to try to deal with them (without using actual game skills).

Maybe people will become good at Paragon kiting, because right now people like to sit casters in the same place for most of a battle making them vulnerable to a spear thrower. Or maybe you can sit a paragon and his defensive capabilities very close to the opposing front lines, making him a good pressure source.

Most window-of-opportunity based skills in this game support spiking better than pressure. Pressure is supposed to be steady, not having long lulls in action that let an opponent heal up and recover. Should be interesting to see what people come up with who want to try to find the best fit for the Paragon class. But for right now, I think the energy/signet based skills should work better than the adrenaline based ones. Having them on demand counts.

Thom Bangalter · Oct 21, 2006, 05:21 AM // 05:21

The interesting thing to chucking spears at people will be punishing people to stop and cast. they can strafe a lot, but as soon as they remain stationary they're getting hit quite a bit. I think overall, beyond some of the cheaper adrenal skills, most will be the cheap (5 or 10 energy) shouts that see the most play.

However, as I was discussing with an alliance mate "in the know", not having a paragon on your team is going to be like not having an e/mo with hp (which is how I've thought they were going to get played in gvg). So, they're going to have a lot to offer. I just hope there isn't a million threads here stating "are paragons useless at dealing damage?"